Wasn’t It Lovely?

[The show opens with a 6 minute audio installation created by Phoebe Wang that was played on a loop inside a secret alcove she constructed as part of the Constellation’s Resonant Bodies exhibit at the Toronto Media Arts Building in in the summer of 2019. This secret hideout allowed the listener a private moment to sit on a carpeted floor and soak in this multi-track audio collage that weave in and out of music, crowded rooms, soundscapes, and intimate conversations that all tap into existential conflicts around belonging and the pursuit of living. This work prompted the following hour of radio and the audio portion of this piece can be found here:https://www.constellationsaudio.com/sounds/resonantbodies/wang] 

 

Braeden
The audio that we're listening to at the top of the show today is a piece titled "Isn't it lovely?" by multimedia artist Phoebe Wang. The first time I heard this piece, it was playing on a loop in a small triangular room that felt like the perfect teenage hideout. It was a secret room built into the corner of a gallery in the Toronto Media Arts Building. And it was one of many sound installations I experienced that day in the Resonant Bodies exhibit hosted by Constellations, which is a collective of artists that playfully experiment with sound and narrative. This exhibit completely transformed the way that I think about sound and space and story. And it was made all the more special by the people I was sharing those moments with. 

It's been over a year now since that exhibit, and I'm called back to the memories of that day, as I try to remember what it felt like to share an experience with friends all together in one space. That whole summer I worked alongside Sabahat, Nermeen and Saba. We would meet every week in this tiny room on the third floor of Hart House called the West Meeting Room. We laughed and cried, sometimes at the same time, as we held space for each other's stories. It's been such a lonely year. And the longing for connection and community just swallows me sometimes. There's a picture on my phone that bubbles up from the ether, and brings me back into this memory. The pictures is of my baby toddling her way into this secret doorway at the gallery. It's from this day, at the end of the summer, when the four of us, well, five of us, I guess if you include my baby, we all met up to go to a sound exhibit. Something we'd never done. And it was this perfect afternoon of togetherness and exploration and laughter. It's a memory that I treasure. 

It prompted me to reach out a few weeks ago. I called up Sabahat and Nermeen and Saba to reconnect and to laugh and to cry. And to try to insert this embodied feeling of togetherness into the remembering of that day. It's a feeling that's been missing for a long time now. You are listening to The West Meeting Room on CiUT 89.5 FM broadcasting from Hart House where we are taking up space on Dish with One Spoon Territory. I'm Braeden Doane. I'm hosting the show today and inviting all of you into my conversations with the people who helped daydream this weekly radio show onto the airwaves connecting across multiple time zones. You'll hear from Sabahat, Nermeen and Saba as we reminisce about our explorations of sound and story with one another. So stay tuned, get comfortable. And when we return, I'll give Saba a call and ask her about her memories of working together that magical summer. 

Saba
[phone rings] Hello? 

Braeden
Hi!

Saba
Hi!

Braeden
How are you? 

Saba
I'm great. Thank you. How are you?

Braeden
I'm doing Okay. Um, yes, it's a bit, bit of a. You know, it's a juggling act.

Saba
Yeah, I completely understand. 

Braeden
Yeah. Um, well, maybe. Are you okay, are you comfortable if I just if I just dive right in? 

Saba
Yeah, definitely. 

Braeden
Would you mind introducing yourself for our listeners?

Saba
Hi. I'm Saba, I am a storyteller. I love introducing myself that way because it's, it's very ambiguous and mysterious. And it kind of invites kind of questions because people ask, oh, like, what kind of stories do you tell? And yeah, I just, I am very honored to be on this call with you. Thanks so much for connecting with me, Braeden.

Braeden
Oh, of course. Well, could I ask, what kind of stories do you tell?

Saba
Yeah. I, honestly, I don't think there's one story that I tell. It's kind of unraveling, and it's constantly evolving. I tell stories of of love and connection. And it's kind of a process of, I got into storytelling to learn more about myself and my place in the world. And just, I kind of tell the stories that I would have loved to hear when I was younger, growing up and kind of lost and figuring things out. And I mean, I tell stories that always, they mean something to me, but also, they're like a point of connection with others. Like when they hear the stories, they can find themselves interwoven in the narrative. So that's a really ambiguous answer. But um, and it's constantly evolving, you know. 

Braeden
Oh, that's beautiful. I love, Yeah, you tell stories of love and connection. That definitely, that really does speak to the stories that you tell. So I had a chance to talk, I called, a few weeks ago I called Sabahat. And we had this amazing conversation. And then the following week, we were able to bring Nermeen into that conversation. And so I was just piecing this together and, you know, you were like the other, you're like the missing link to the group. So I just, I'm just so grateful you're willing to add your voice to this. And, and just Yeah, I've been thinking a lot about our time together last summer, which feels like so, it just feels like years ago at this point. And something that we talked a lot about was thinking about the West Meeting Room as a space and sort of like the origins of that space that we sort of all created together last summer. And then sort of molding that into a vision of a radio show. And then, you know, here we are, like 40 some odd episodes later. So yeah, I just wanted to know, like, do you remember the first time you went to the West Meeting Room?

Saba
Yeah. Um, the first time I walked into the West Meeting Room, I was so excited and nervous and just, I had just recently been hired as a podcast producer for Hart House Stories, and I just, you know, I had kind of, I had briefly met all of you. You, Braeden, and Tony and Sabrina at the Pride Pub. And then I was just honestly, I was so blown away by the energy and just the, I think the main thing I remember from just walking into that space was like all of the possibilities that this, that this job, this new job could hold for me because I, you know, I love stories. I've always loved stories, but the possibilities of telling stories through sound was still very novel to me, and I think I was just so I was just basking in all of the newness and just the novelty of it all and when I walked into that space for our first meeting, I think I was just, I just knew that this was the start of something so special for me. A really exciting chapter. And it's, it was also my first foray really into Hart House. It's such a big like building, it's so grand. I hadn't really explored all the nooks and crannies. 

And when I was trying to find the West Meeting Room actually I got lost, because it's just so hidden. It's like so, it feels almost separated from the rest of the building. It's like this, this very special kind of hidden gem in Hart House. And what I remember really vividly about the West Meeting Room and just being in that space with all of you and connecting with Sabahat and Nermeen, and everybody, it's just the laughter. I can never forget just how much fun we had in that space. And I'm sure we'll continue to have in that space. It's, it's, um, hopefully when we're all able to, to connect in that way again. But it's, um, yeah, I think, I like, I know, this is kind of unconventional, but I like the sound of people talking over each other. Like just that, like the chaos and the excitement and just it all, it makes me feel so warm. And that's what I remember from being in that space. It's the warmth, it's the connection, it's the, it's the love, it's the tenderness of just being in a space and surrounded by a group of people who are just so kind and compassionate. And we're kind of learning and growing together and how everything evolves so quickly. 

Like, it just, it reminded me of what the beauty of collaboration and just making things, creating things together. It made me feel so much less alone, because I think before then, the university in general, and because Hart House is like an extension of that university, even though it kind of has a life of its own. It's very much a part of that space and that institution. So before that I was so lonely. Navigating that space, I felt like I didn't belong. But walking into the West Meeting Room was my first point of real belonging in that space. And it's just so special. Sorry, I can go on forever. I just love. Yeah I just love it. I think it's really interesting because I never, this is the first time I think I'm actually fully reflecting on how everything has kind of shifted and evolved over the past, I guess it's well over a year now, that I first walked into that space. So thank you. And I want to thank you for forging this kind of like this reflection and connection about, Yeah.

Braeden
Thank you. Yeah, it's nice to connect in this way. And I think sort of in piecing together this show, I've just been thinking a lot about space and community and friendship and collaborative, artistic exploration. And, yeah, it's prompted, it's just been so nice to, like you mentioned, the laughter like in editing this together, you know, I connected with Sabahat, and then the following week Sabahat and Nermeen and I were able to connect across three time zones. And just the laughter that emerged, the peaks of laughter in the recording has just been really comforting. And yeah, it's kind of tempered the loneliness of, that we've all sort of working our way through this year. So we all went on the field trip to the Constellations Resonant Bodies sound exhibit. I just wondered if you had any reflections about going to that exhibit? Memories of that day? Maybe, how it, did it shift anything in the way that you think about sound? Yeah would you mind sharing a bit about that?

Saba
It was incredible. I think just, first of all, going to that space was a whole kind of adventure of its own. I walked through like Trinity Bellwoods Park for the first time to get there. Like I had cross the, like walk across it and kind of go through all of these like twists and turns and all these very, like, obscure streets for me like because I hadn't really forayed into really that part of downtown before. And then being able to connect with you Braeden and Sabahat and Nermeen. That was amazing because I felt like really that was such a special moment. For me to be able to experience that exhibit with all of you. First of all it was, I felt like it was kind of this combination of things. It was like an independent kind of individual journey that we're all embarking on. But also we were all so connected in the same way. And afterwards, when we were talking about it, it was so refreshing to be able to like just, all of us were just in awe, and just sharing our individual experiences. So that was really fun. 

This exhibit itself was incredible, like, just the way it was. All the displays were kind of, it felt like you were moving through this kind of disconnected yet very connected and cohesive kind of exhibit. Like, each display was so unique in its own right, but all of them were the media, the medium, the main medium was sound. So that was really cool. And I think that was my first, no, I know that was my first time going to sound exhibit. So it was just a day of firsts. And I was actually, though all of them were so incredible. I just spent so much time at each individual station and kind of making sure I fully kind of immersed myself in the space. I was particularly drawn to Phoebe's piece "Isn't it lovely?" I think, first of all, walking into that kind of cordoned off like room, it felt like you were entering into this whole other world. Like it was this whole other realm. There was something very comforting about it. It was I think it might have been the carpet because I'm so used to carpet flooring. And I just sat down cross legged. I think at one point, I actually lay down on my back, like fully on my back, and I just closed my eyes. And I was listening to the piece. And the piece is very much, like it's the sounds that kind of are entering your body. But it's also the space. 

Like the space is so intentionally designed to kind of, it almost envelops you in this comfort and this warmth. But then you're also listening to this piece that's very, like, there's a lot happening. There are a lot of sounds of conversation. You can kind of zoom in on certain parts of the conversation. You feel like you're going on this, like this roller coaster of emotion. It's very, yeah, it's so intimate in a way. It feels like you're intruding on someone's life, like you've been kind of, but you've also in a way been invited into it. Because when I actually first walked into the space, the door was slightly ajar. So it was almost like an invitation to walk in. And you kind of like hesitantly open the door. You kind of like move your way, push your way through the door and sit down. And I think I've told this story before, but that day that we visited, there was a newspaper on the ground. And I don't know, I felt kind of compelled to look at it. And I think there was something about a horoscope and I looked at my horoscope and it was just so, it resonated so much with me that it was all these like little things that kind of aligned for me to be in that room in that space. And to connect with the sounds that were kind of outside of me, but also like entering my body in a weird way. I don't know if that sounds kind of off. 

It really did feel like all consuming, that display. Phoebe's display felts so all consuming. And that was actually, I can, if I could vividly pinpoint a time, a moment where I fell in love with sound it was in that space. And particularly listening to Phoebe's piece and being a part of it. Because you felt like an actor, in a way you felt like a participant in that story. And the stories that were kind of being told in that space. You didn't feel removed from it, you felt very much a part of it. And I didn't even know that you could do this with sound. Like storytelling can be, stories can be told this way that they can be so intimate and so, so engaging and so immersive and so powerful. Like I couldn't stop thinking about that exhibit. And then I went back again with my partner and it was just this whole other experience just being in that space with him beside me. And yeah, it was just so lovely. 

And then honestly, when Constellations, they uploaded all of the pieces to their online exhibition, like for their online exhibit for Resonant Bodies. To this day, I've listened to the piece several times, and every time I just close my eyes and just take it all in and I can transport myself back to that, like I'm transported back to that space. And that day. And I think I really felt like you all were my family, like we were all there together. And I, it was such a special moment of connection. And really Braeden, it was all because of you, because I would have never heard of this exhibit. I would have never had this, like transformative experience without you. So thank you so much Braeden. I am so grateful to you for putting all this together. Like you really are the tether that connected all of us together and cultivated all these experiences that are so memorable. So thank you.

Braeden
Thank you so much. Just in these last few minutes, I wondered if, you know, we weren't able to connect for our call with Sabahat and Nermeen, but is there something, is there a message you would like to pass on to them so they can hear it when this airs? 

Saba
Yes. I want to say I love you both. I feel, I will always hold on to memories that we created together so dearly. And I think what's so beautiful is that we all connected through our love of sound and storytelling. And that will always be there. Like it will always keep us tethered together. And we created this bond that is so special and so meaningful to me. And I'm so excited for also, for all the possibilities that our friendship can hold. And I'm so excited for the possibility of  reconnecting in person again, because I really miss all of you. And that was one of the best summers of my life. So thank you. Yeah, thank you. I think the main thing I want to say is I'm so grateful to you all for, for just for helping me grow and being there for me, and just accepting me as I am. Yeah, I think that's so special. I think that's just what really, like I'm learning more and more, especially in a time like this, that connection is everything. Community really is everything. It's really what keeps us going and keeps us creating and keeps us moving, and kind of keeps us hopeful. So yeah.

Braeden
Thank you so much. And I'm just yeah, I'm so touched and overwhelmed with just expanding love. Yeah, this has just been so special to reconnect in this way. And, you know, I know we're, sort of maybe thinking longingly on those memories together in The West Meeting Room. But I guess my hope is that the show can carry on that space and can be a pathway for continuing these connections and collaborations. And yeah, just thank you so much. Thank you for sharing.

Saba
Oh, thank you. Have a, have an amazing day and and say hi to everybody for me to Noah and Mattis. And we'll be in touch soon. Okay, sounds

Braeden
Okay, sounds good. 

Saba
Yeah! Thank you!

Braeden
Thank you! Take care 

Saba
Bye! 

Braeden
Thank you so much Saba for sharing your stories with us. We're going to take a quick break. And when we return, I'll bring you into my conversation with Nermeen and Sabahat as they share their memories of expanding our explorations of sound and creative collaboration. You are listening to CiUT 89.5 FM stay with us.

Nermeen
So I think it was really interesting because I was thinking about that day and like I streetcar-ed down like to that area and I hadn't really visited that like, the place where the little museum was or the Art Center. I hadn't really visited it before so even just like walking and around that area, I can remember the street really clearly. There was a bakery opposite. And just kind of like that whole experience of coming there and it started raining slightly. I think like also just being anywhere that's kind of new. Like there is a certain nervousness, like as I was walking over as well, I do remember that sort of feeling like, what if I'm the first one there and like, I don't know where to go? And how to like, how to like, do the exhibit right? And all of that. And like, I also, I haven't been to very many like conceptual art pieces in general. So I think there is also like, a certain nervousness of like, Am I gonna understand it? Am I gonna, like "get" what's happening here? 

Sabahat
You know, I was talking to Braeden about this exactly, right. Where art kind of becomes this exclusive place where there's almost a fear of going inside. Because like galleries and everything are set up in such a way that you're just like, you know, I might not be qualified to like decipher this, you know. There's no understanding of you know, that this could be subjective. That's a real kind of fear that surrounds galleries, which I wish would go away. And I wish galleries would be more accessible. But I think yeah, that anxiety is so real. Because like, the gallery is such an acoustic kind of like, you also like, it almost feels like a sin to talk in the gallery. 

Nermeen
I think also with conceptual art pieces, there's always a moment where you walk in and you're kind of like, what is happening here. And like there was the first piece in the entrance had I think balloons were being like, inflated and deflated. And like trying to figure out like, how did these pieces actually work? And what are we supposed to be like looking at or listening for And then there was one off to the side, kind of where I think you have to put headphones on and then sort of like, again, like you start in the middle of the piece. And I think something about that was also very interesting, where it was on, it was on a loop. And I remember putting it on. And it's just like going already and you're doing this like mental math of trying to figure out like, I have no idea what this piece is about. Even if I started from the beginning, I probably wouldn't fully understand that. And then once you kind of get a little bit of a grasp on what's happening, you can sort of absorb it a lot better. And I think, and just kind of, I think walking in with everybody and everyone kind of split into their own directions and went to different ones was cool to just sort of see, just to see the way that people were experiencing the exhibit. 

Feels like such a long like, I feel like the whole world changed since then basically, which it did in a way. It's just so strange. Like, I just feel like time as this whole concept is so so strange. But that actually makes me, that reminds me kind of like, of the actual exhibit because I feel like with things that are totally sound based and like they there's no visuals to them. And actually at the Phoebe Wang one, I think specifically, there's almost like a, like a sense of like, no time basically. And like the idea that like time doesn't exist in those spaces in the same way because you're almost in this like sound bubble. And especially with like any, the two pieces that stick out the most to me were her one with the, with all of the voices. 

And then also that other one in the sound box. For hers, though, I was trying to find like my notebook because I had kept a notebook with me from the day and I have no idea where it is now. But like, it might even be in Canada to be honest. But I wrote down like little bits of phrases from her, like just dialogue bits, because I thought like, these would be really interesting starting points for like a short story or something. And then the idea of like, visualizing her in conversation with these people, and it made me want to record like people around me as well. And just like, then kind of like chop up the conversation so you have to fill in all of those gaps. Because I think just like that, in itself, just this idea of capturing that human element of conversation was so interesting. And like, you almost hear yourself reflected in it. And I wish I could find my notebook and like find some stuff I had written down because I have no recollection of it now. But yeah, I think that like that, that's what really stood out to me about her piece.

Sabahat
It's always helpful if you go with people, because if you're going alone, you know, those anxieties kind of increase because you're like, Oh my god, I'm so nervous, you know, What if someone sees me? But if you're with a bunch of people who you already know and are comfortable with. Like, we were, we were together and so that kind of comfort kind of made it a little easier, where it was just like you know, Okay, this is a room. I'm just gonna lie down out here. Because I lay down in the Phoebe Wang exhibition. I was like I'm just gonna lie down. Um, you know, which I would've definitely 100% would not have done if I was on my own.

Nermeen
I definitely agree that I think going with people makes a huge difference. But for me, what I also really appreciated about the exhibit was like the idea of like private viewing spaces. Which you don't often get in a gallery, so like the idea that you can like go behind the door or like go inside a sound box or sort of, sort of like sit on a bench off to the side and like experience that part of the exhibit like completely on your own. I remember like walking into the Phoebe Wang one actually, like I think the first time I went in I was on my own for that one and I didn't really know what was happening in it or like if I was even supposed to go in. Because it's kind of like behind the door and you're not sure if that's part of the exhibit. But just like being able to sort of like sit and not feel, or at least that maybe this is just me, but like feel conscious of like being looked at as you look at the Art. Even though like nobody is doing that because like I wasn't looking at anybody else looking at the art and so I was assuming that nobody else was either, but you always think like Am I looking at this right? Am I like, what if I'm looking at like something that's not part of the exhibit and like somebody notices. Like how embarrassing. But yeah, being able to I guess experience it just like very privately in a way, I think that kind of did make it a little bit more accessible, at least for me.

Braeden
So like we went to this exhibit because we were working in audio together throughout the course of the summer. And this was our like, end of the summer field trip. So yeah, I just wondered did it sort of change the way you think about audio or sound art?

Nermeen
I definitely came out of it with a lot of ideas about like, what I could do with sound, I think, like, with what we were doing, designing audio, and I think like anyone who kind of works on like a podcast or a more like narrative format, you're sort of thinking very much in terms of like, how do these parts connect to like a larger story. Whereas I feel like with the sound exhibit, it was very much about like, the parts themselves, and how they can be chopped up in different ways to like create, like, very auditory experiences more than narrative experiences. I think they weren't trying to tell any kind of story or like put together a consistent theme. And I think just like the idea of like, playing with sound in that way was something I actually hadn't really thought about. 

With the audio, I was always thinking about playing with story. And so that was like a very new concept. And just like, okay, like, a sentence could be like an audio piece. Or like, just one word, like on repeat could be an audio piece. Like I had never thought of that before. So I definitely remember like, right at the very end of the exhibit, like we all kind of came out and there was these two tables, and we were standing and like kind of debriefing about everything over there. And that was really fun. And it was kind of like, Oh, how did you feel? What did you think and like? Just, we were laughing. And it was a really nice experience. But there's also a point where, in the actually in the Phoebe Wang one, where I think like, I definitely remember Sabahat was in there, like lying down. And there was like, I think we were all in there together at some point. And like, even just like, I think experiencing that, because I had sort of briefly gone in and then came out and then experiencing it again, like together was really fun. Because like, I think that experience of like, my eyes were closed at one point. And like everybody was sort of experiencing it individually. But also just like being able to watch the reactions of different people, kind of smiling to themselves, or paying attention to different things or like scribbling notes down. That was really cool. And I think like that was the only one that I do remember us all being in that exhibit at some point together. Because like you said, I definitely did experience a lot of the exhibits on my own. And so I think that like one collective just moment of like sort of relaxing in there. And like again, it was similar to like The West Meeting Room. It was this like very other space, which is like removed from everything else. And like just pausing inside there was Yeah, I - that sticks out to me. So yeah, that was cool.

Braeden
I'd forgotten that we'd all sort of like had piled into Phoebe's space that she built. And feeling like, I don't know, I feel like kind of that whole day I felt like really connected to my child's mind. I felt like curious and kind of maybe a little silly, and maybe a little bit like, rebellious. Because it's like, you're exploring, and you can do what you want. And then just like, all piling into that space, and I don't know feeling like giggling or just feeling like that moment when you're like, when you're so, when you have like a sleep over when you're 10 and you're just like so jacked because you're so connected. You're just like all like laughing and giggling together. And it's the best. Like I felt very connected with that feeling.

Nermeen
Yeah, I also think like something that it reminded me of what you were just saying was like, it almost felt like the idea that we were like overhearing like a conversation. And we were kind of like secretly all in on it. Because that's sort of the nature of her piece was that you're overhearing like her conversations with her friends. It almost feels like you're kind of listening through a door into like somebody else's life, into someone else's secrets. And like that kind of experience. In general, doing it with people is always so much fun. Because you can like feel, like you said, like giggle at different points and sort of think like, it feels like you're doing something a little naughty. And I think that's just like, that was such a fun part of it. And like we, I'm really glad that we got to share that.

Braeden
I guess like all of us met in Toronto and worked in sound together. But then both you and Sabahat have returned home afterwards. And so I'm wondering like, were there aspects of like the soundscapes of home that you were experiencing differently after sort of tuning your ear to like, the audio world for a bit?

Nermeen
Oh, that's such a good question. I think yes. And like, I think for me, so I mean, I came back to Dubai after being away for quite a while. Like I grew up here in bits and pieces, and then was in Canada for a long time. And I used to kind of come back for vacations, but at the same time, like I hadn't lived here I think in like five years almost. And so coming back is like, and experiencing just a very big, very fast paced city has been a really interesting experience. And I think, like I'm very sort of attuned to like certain, like one thing that really stood out to me was like the sound of prayer. 

So like from when I first came here back in December like that was something that I was like intensely aware of, was the fact that you could hear the mosques like five times a day. And like, usually from almost anywhere that you live, that's just part of your daily routine. And it's something so strange in the beginning because that's a sound that you would almost never hear in Toronto city just like naturally and yet it comes, it kind of like it's, you know, like if your window's open like you can hear it in the morning first thing when you wake up and like last thing before you go to sleep. And I think like those kinds of sounds are really interesting. 

And then also, I think language as well, like, hearing a lot more Arabic over here has been something else that I kind of, I think I'm kind of attuned to it in a different way. And then nature sounds, I think, not as much. Just because there aren't quite as many, or maybe I don't spend as much time outdoors. But yeah, there was like a point where I was going for a lot of walks, especially during a lockdown. And I think like there's kind of a lake near where I live. And so there's fountains in the lake and there's like a bunch of like really big trees where the wind sort of like rustles through and I think that sound, like those soundscapes actually reminded me a lot of Toronto, which is like a nice thing. Because there's so many sounds that are different. The sounds of nature are kind of always the same. So yeah.

Sabahat
I always think about the time when Braeden asked us to, like she gave us like homework, and she was like, you know, record like small soundscapes. And I remember we were all sharing ours and Braeden shared hers, where she was getting off the bus and you could see that TTC kind of voice go on, like this station, and then like the doors open. I think that, like because every time I think about that, I'm like, it's such so Toronto, it's like I missed that. But similar to what Nermeen was saying or, you know, like hearing the Ezan, like the call to prayer five times a day, you get so attuned to it. And like I'm born and raised here. So like, that was absolutely like part of my life since childhood. I actually, when I came to Toronto, it was very weird for a while to not hear that. Because it's just like a part of your day. It's just there. 

And then when I came back, I noticed the first time I heard that I almost had like, tears in my eyes, because I was like, Oh my god, like, you know. Because like, you'd miss it. But like, you know, other than that, I mean, Toronto's just like great. You know I used to like, and I think I've spoken about this so much, how, um, the biggest thing for me in Toronto, or one of the biggest things was the ability to just walk, you know. Just take a walk, or whatever, you can do that here. So just the ability to actually go out and take your phone out without the fear of like, getting mugged, and recording a sound, you know. Because like the possibilities just like shrink so much. So yeah, I think those kind of technical aspects I miss more. Was just like, you know, the ability to do that, to have the time and the luxury to do that and feel safe to do that is something that is missing now in my life.

Braeden
Are there, has there been a moment that you can think of, like, either recently, or in the past few years where like, you've heard a particular sound and you're like, completely transported somewhere else?

Sabahat
Example that came to me is kind of weird, but I'll say it. So there was this one very trashy Bollywood song that I heard the first time when I was in Toronto, because like my SoundCloud playlist would go on, and it would just like put in random songs. And I heard that for the first time and I was this is a very trash song. And so I think in my head, it became associated with a certain kind of place, and that place for me became - so I used to live at Grad House and there was a Second Cup right next to it, like it was a grad room and I used to sit there and work. Um, and I remember the first time accidentally actually, um, when I like, when I came back and that song came on, it was just so like, my entire body just was just like I'm - What's happening? You know? 

And I think in Toronto, actually, the first time I went to a Iqbal supermarket, which was like this Pakistani grocery shop like you get all like the masalas and like all our local biscuits and everything. The first time I went there, firstly, like the visual was like, Oh my god. And there's this really popular supermarket Karachi called garage called Imtiaz Supermarket. And I was like, you know, my first thought was, Oh my God, like I'm there. And then with sound, it was so weird, because after months and months of listening to like, mostly English. Um, you know, literally everyone there was talking Urdu or Hindi. And it was just like this weird thing where it's just like, I like it. It almost felt like, Wait, are you talking to me? Because like, I feel like I'm the only one but like, everyone was talking in Urdu with each other and it was so, that also kind of transported me back.

Nermeen
Yeah, that's so interesting. I was thinking like, I definitely think like for me as well, I think moving and the like, not so much necessarily like with languages or the just in general sound, but I think like very specific, like talking to people on the phone or even like - because a lot of my friends and a lot of my family's back in Canada. And so like whenever I get like voice notes from them, and I'll sometimes be listening to voice notes like on my way to work or like in the middle of the afternoon and there's something very like jarring about being somewhere so far away and like having this voice that pulls you back to this other place and like this other time. So I think just like familiar voices does that. 

But recently, my brother is a huge fan of like old songs. And he's really good at finding like these weird specific songs from like TV shows that we used to watch when we were little kids, I don't know, like, where, how he finds it. But when we were both super young, we used to love this Scooby Doo movie called The Monster of Mexico. And there was like this one particular scene that like really sticks out in my memory. This was like, literally from when I was, I think like six years old, where they're like on this crazy chase in Mexico, and there's like a, there's a song playing. And so he found that song, we were like driving to go get coffee or something. And he just like put it on. And it was so insane. Like, I literally felt like I was six years old. Like I could picture the exact scene and I was sitting back in like the old apartment, like on the purple mattress. And I was just like, it's so crazy that like you can do this with songs. Like I would never, I think have identified it on my own. Like, I wouldn't have been able to look for it. But as soon as he played it, it was like I was right back there. So yeah, that was like an interesting like a weird, like out of body experience. 

Braeden
Another theme I want to focus on this show is not only sound but also space. And Sabahat and I talked a bit about this last week, but I wonder Nermeen if you would share just maybe, what was it like sort of the, your first time going into that room and meeting in that space? And then how did that sort of change over time?

Nermeen
Yeah, for sure. So it's so interesting, because I think my first memory of the West Meeting Room is that I couldn't find it. And I was looking just like, Hart House is like notoriously hard to navigate. Like, I'm a person with a horrible sense of direction. And somebody told me like I remember the meeting was up in there. And I think like, I was kind of like working with Day and then she was like just jump into the podcast conversation. Like it's totally casual. Because I was interest in podcasting. And then I was like, firstly, I can't find this room. I'm going to be late to this meeting. Like I was very, very nervous coming into that situation. And then like kind of walking up and going through Hart House and like not just navigating that like upper space, it almost feels like you're going into an attic, which in and of itself is like a very cool experience. Like it feels like you're going somewhere a little like, like you said, it's like this forbidden, like almost musky space. 

And then the West Meeting Room but like in contrast to that is actually like very bright and airy. And so like, as soon as I walked in, I kind of felt like a sense of ease. But the first time that I ever went in there, I think there was like 10 of us crammed into that space, which is like not a space for 10 people. And there was like a lack of chairs and like people's bags. And it was cool. But I think like it was nice, because like I definitely was again, like kind of intimidated going into that space and feeling like, I mean, I definitely feel this way a lot where I was sort of like, Oh, I'm kind of intruding on like another space and like, you know, I'm like an extra person in here. And it's already so tight. And like I'm just taking up space basically. But I think like right away, like just the general friendliness of everybody, like put me so much at ease. And then like, over time, the West meeting room became like a place where there genuinely was such an emphasis on like exploration and experimentation. And like just play that I think I like really began to look forward to it. 

And I also loved kind of like escaping out of my daily routine of summer courses. And I was moving apartments at that time. And just like going up into this space where you can just kind of like leave all of that stuff and just be in this like nice bright like room with like people who you enjoy talking to and like just kind of playing around with audio, which is kind of scary anyway. Of like recording yourself and then listening back to it, which is horrifying. So yeah, that space became like really a kind of sacred space in a way. And I think like at a time where, like, I was definitely looking for that space because I was leaving the city and like I had already moved and I was sort of like sleeping on couches and stuff and like half my stuff was there, half of it wasn't, that sort of became a space where I was like, Oh, I feel like there is a place for me here. Um, so yeah, that was kind of my experience with it.

Braeden
We bore witness to all of our growth and learning and then one of the most special, or just a memory that I treasure, is when Meena came to join us and meet you all, from caretaking, and how Yeah, it was just so special because, you know, she's very, she came to drop off something for my daughter and she, you know could be quite shy and for you and Saba and Nermeen to just like welcome her and have this moment where you each shared parts of your story with each other. And like I couldn't really understand but like we're all like crying together and hugging it, yeah, it just felt like it bridged community. Because like the caretakers are often this like invisible labor force that people don't really see or appreciate and for her to be brought into a community with students so that you know, I think she saw you in the coming weeks after that and you were able to like greet each other and say hello. And it just felt like yeah, it just felt like more familial and friendly like just in this like tiny forgotten room in this like reclaimed space in the West Wing of the castle. It just felt like so warm and felt like home and kind of made the whole rest of the building feel a little friendlier.

Sabahat
You spoke about Meena and like, I cherish that so much because it was actually during the days when I was really, really missing my mother a lot, back in Pakistan. And Meena and I, she was from originally from India, and Hindi and Urdu, like our two languages are pretty similar, like we can understand each other completely. And so that, you know, first instant of recognizing that, you know, we speak the same language comfortably and started speaking in Urdu. And she said something like, after just like maybe like a few sentences of like, you know, me asking her How are you? And you know, which part of India are you from? And all of that, you know, she called me something, she said "meree betee", which means like my daughter. And she hugged me. 

And I think that was just like, I, it was just like so needed in that moment. For you know, there was this recognition that, you know, we, because when you meet someone from like a same or similar culture, there's like this instinctual understanding, you know. You understand their bodies, you know, you, there's this understanding that you know where I'm coming from. You know, and so when she hugged me and said, you know "meree betee, which means, you know, Oh my daughter, it was just like this, really nice, you know. So I'm really glad you brought that up. Because Yeah, that was, that's one of the most beautiful moments for me as well. Where I was, you know, cuz like, living in Toronto, you don't, I didn't get to speak my own language a lot anyway. And for that, like, beautiful thing to happen in that same room where it did feel very, very safe was just another, you know, beautiful thing. Yeah.

Braeden
Yeah. Oh, thank you for sharing. I'm crying thinking about it.

Sabahat
I'm like struggling to not cry right now. [laughter]

Braeden
Yeah. Laughing and crying all at the same time.

Sabahat
Yeah, That basically defines the West Meeting Room. Yeah.

Nermeen
Yeah.

Sabahat
Like she said though, there's always space for you in The West Meeting Room, you can leave everything behind. And, you know, and like, she said, you know, it was not a room for 10 people, but like, I just - I was just thinking, like, considering how small that room was, we partied. We had multiple food parties. We were always like getting samosas and like having parties in that room [laughter]. So yeah just feel like, you know, in that small space, like we all felt heard. 

And, you know, I remember this very uncomfortable moment, even after we've gotten acquainted and everything, when we were playing our moment of transformations for each other, that listening party. And I knew that, you know, and I wasn't having a very good day, and I recorded it like way in advance, and I was just like, okay, you know, hearing it back is probably going to trigger me. So, you know, I just whispered in Tony's ear, and I just, like, left the room. I was like, you know just call me when you're done. Um, but like, as soon as I left, I think after like a few minutes, I was like, I want to see how people are reacting, you know what I mean? Like, it's like, because in my head, I was like, Oh, everyone's probably cringing. And they're, like, you know - So I did come back in. And the response was just like, you know, it was like dead silence. And like, I saw a bunch of tears, and it was just like, you know when you're like, you're sharing something so, so, so personal. And for that to be received so like open heartedly, that was just, I think that could only have been done in the West Meeting Room. I think anywhere else would have been a very different experience. So I think that's what the room signifies. For me. It's just like, you know, you're heard. You have space there for everyone. Even though it's tiny. We're always gonna have samosas [laughter]

Braeden
Sabahat, Nermeen, Saba, thank you so much for joining me in conversation today and for all that you shared. A big thank you to Phoebe Wang, who generously sent over her piece titled, "Isn't it lovely?" for us to play on our show today. And thank you to Constellations, which is the sound art and experimental narrative collective that put together the Resonant Bodies exhibit last year. You can listen to all of the pieces featured at that exhibit and more, if you visit their website at constellationsaudio.com And most of all, thanks to you, our listeners. Thank you for joining us each week in The West Meeting Room to laugh and cry and learn from one another. We would love to hear from you. You can reach us @HartHouseStories on Instagram. Send us a message and let us know the ways you're connecting with community in these lonely times. Take care and we'll be with you next week.